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Frag changes

Postby BC24 » Jun 1, 2004 (1:38 pm)

Why were frags changed? I broke mine trying to get to pirates, something I've been hunting for a while now. Did you feel that people were getting lazy or something? hehehe
hmm ok that's it
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Postby Goharo » Jun 1, 2004 (2:14 pm)

i dunno what the logic behind it is but i think it sucks. Seems like with any change we are all stuck playing catch up i am getting tired of that myself.
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Postby GDPALLIDAR » Jun 1, 2004 (2:33 pm)

i dunno what the logic behind it is but i think it sucks. Seems like with any change we are all stuck playing catch up i am getting tired of that myself.


Surely you don't believe that every single change that is put in is negative and causes "problems" for you.

BTW, I'm just trying to help here - but the people who do this work do it for the love of the game and no other reason. They do their best and they work hard. It is expected people will not like some of the things they do, but when players say everything sucks (I've noticed you are fond of using that word in your posts), well, it can make a person almost despair at the thought of even looking at the code. In other words, it's not productive to getting your concern looked at and possibly addressed.

Instead of "This sucks, I used to be able to..." you could say, "I'm having a hard time now, because I used to be able to..." ?
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Postby BC24 » Jun 1, 2004 (2:58 pm)

The majority of us know how much work all the staff has been doing to make us all giddy with happiness at say, shifting for druids, or the new town and shops.
Yeah I'm a bit pissed that I broke my frag, but I'm sure there is a reason as to why the MD system was changed. Not like I'm stranded hehehe. Just use the shards instead (though those are a bit of a pain) or walk (heaven forbid! :shock: ) Just curious as to -why- it was changed. By changing it, what were you trying to accomplish? I'm far from mad. A bit upset yeah, but I think everyone is in a way, but we'll get over it.
Change is good. It can add new and exciting aspects to the game, or just make us work harder and sweat a little when things used to be a breeze.
Can't make everyone happy, just do your best. That's all any of us can ask for. (And if people are so damn mad at the changes, instead of complaining about it, give suggestions as to how to fix it, or save us the eye sore of having to read immature posts about how crappy your life is now.)
-Shana :wink:
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Postby BRUCE » Jun 1, 2004 (4:24 pm)

I like the change, i don't understand how making UMD a factor in using Magical Devices is a problem. I might be going out on a limb here, tell me if im way out in left field but.....the Use Magic Devices skill is for.....USING MAGIC DEVICES!?

Having it totally level based before was probably a temporary fix until he put the true system into place, why would it be level based? It makes 0 sense. I do wish he had grandfathered in some MD skill based on your level or somethin, since i have 3 MD lol. But who cares? Within an hour Will got what 30 ranks? I'm not gunna shoot myself. You need 56 total for Mantaya, thats probably 2-2.5 hours of work. Maybe 3 hours total for V'rung? I dunno, i'm not going to get broken up over it.
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Postby Goharo » Jun 1, 2004 (4:25 pm)

No ima stick with it sucks.
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Postby GDEXXY » Jun 1, 2004 (4:51 pm)

Nah, it doesn't.

How many people spent a few hours and grained 50, 60, even 70+ ranks in Use Magic Device this morning and can now tune to everywhere based on skill alone? Several... more than a dozen, actually.

Suck it up and use the skill like it was intended.
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Postby BC24 » Jun 1, 2004 (6:03 pm)

Not saying it's a bad thing. Before it was changed I had no idea it was based on level.
Is there anything else other then Frags that teach MD?
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Postby MANIACWILL » Jun 1, 2004 (6:23 pm)

granted it took me about 4 hours with faye a avian mage but i now have what 135-140 ranks in use magical device. She will likely be able to use that skill in the professions too. Granted it was four hours of my time i feel was wasted but hey it is over now and i can teleport anywhere i can frag plus what 25 exp per level isnt bad either. lets see 100 x 25 is 2500 exp for four hours of work granted you lose some skills in that time but they come back pretty easy and even at level 1 you can gain the exp
think of it as two free levels on magical device at level 1
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Postby MANIACWILL » Jun 1, 2004 (6:29 pm)

And Goharo if you dont like the way the game works give ideas that are constructive please. You might have an idea that everyone says wow amazing wish we thought of that. You might have constructive ideas that will improve the game for yourself and everyone. Saying I dont like this the game sucks now tells me you are ready to move on. Then again you might just need to start a second character and go a different path so you have more than just goharo the goblin sitting in sts and yelling at everyone ruining the game for them. No one has complained thus far but you do bring down everyones rp value and makes them not sure if they want to play when you insult them yell at them and do things that make them feel bad in the most common place in the game. If you really must sit in the game and be a grouch you have a house, which by the way alot of us want even us that pay and are supposed to have one, you can sit there and complain to yourself and no one will feel bad about you insulting thier feelings when they are trying to be friendly to you or others. Yeah I sound harsh but I am known to speak my mind, and even though you didnt make me feel bad you did alot of newer people that logged off because of how you made them feel. Some of them i have aim for and i talked with them. Anyway the point is you dont like the way the game plays give good ideas they are always taking ideas to improve things
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Postby Goharo » Jun 1, 2004 (6:59 pm)

nah i am done with the whole idea thing i am just starting to tell when i think something sucks. doesnt matter what your ideas are anyways i really dont think they get listened to.
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Postby FROG » Jun 1, 2004 (8:05 pm)

Would it be possible to get a list of how much skill we need to get to places? I would really rather not bust my fragment trying to go someplace I used to go.
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Postby GDEXXY » Jun 1, 2004 (9:54 pm)

Goharo wrote:nah i am done with the whole idea thing i am just starting to tell when i think something sucks. doesnt matter what your ideas are anyways i really dont think they get listened to.


I am sadly disappointed in you. You, of all people who play, should know that this is so far from the truth it's not even funny. I have listened and responded to almost every one of your ideas and suggestions. MANY of them have made it directly to the game. Do you need a bigger clue that your opinions are valued and complaints heard? How about almost half of the Thief rewrite... how about a multitude of combat fixes from bugs and problems you, yourself, pointed out... how about the number of skill fixes I've had to make to hiding, stealing, etc. to get the skills to a point where they're no longer pointless to have around.

You're free to keep saying "this sucks... and no one listens", but my opinion of that is that that sucks. As you've said yourself "I'm calling BS on you".
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Postby GDEXXY » Jun 1, 2004 (9:58 pm)

FROG wrote:Would it be possible to get a list of how much skill we need to get to places? I would really rather not bust my fragment trying to go someplace I used to go.


Sure...

Code: Select all
Location                Color           Frag    Shard   DC      Gems
----------------------  --------------  ------  ------  ------  ----
Semanri, South Town Sq  forest green    YES     YES     20      agate, jade
Cal'Ziz                 dusty yellow    YES     YES     20      topaz
D'Mare Fin              sea green       YES     YES     20      opal
Crystal Caverns [new]   sparkling whit  YES     YES     25      nugget
Ruined Temple           pale green              YES             glass bead
Desert Trail, Clearing  light grey              YES             garnet, epidote, aventurine
Cal'Ziz, cleric's guil  glowing white           YES             pearl
Semanri, Mage's guild   bright blue             YES             sapphire
Semanri, Fighter's gui  dark red                YES             ruby
Pirate's Dungeon        black           YES     YES     30      obsidian
Tes'Kata Village        royal blue      YES     YES     35      moonstone
Istiilian Islands       brilliant whit  YES     YES     45      diamond
Mantaya Isle            pinkish red     YES     YES     65      coral
Mount Lexunaze          marbled         YES             82     
V'Rung                  deep brown      YES             100


Some of that has been abbreviated, but you should get the idea. "DC" stands for "Difficulty Check" and it represents the bare minimum score you need to successfully tune to that location. So a skill of 65 in Use Magic Devices will always let you tune to Mantaya Isle, regardless of whatever random chance gets factored in.

If you try to tune to a location that is more than 20 skill ranks off from what you're capable of, you have a 5% chance to destroy your fragment (not cumulative). So as you can see, it's impossible to destroy your fragment when tuning to Semanri, Cal'Ziz, or D'Mare Fin and they are all as challenging as each other.
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Postby FROG » Jun 1, 2004 (10:05 pm)

Thankyou thankyou thankyou!
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Postby ANTIHEROIC » Jun 2, 2004 (3:40 am)

There any chance the pirate's dungeon could get a small downtweak in difficulty? Considering my highest skill when I started hunting there was 20, and that being parry (after that was weapons at 15-16), 30 seems a bit high to get there.
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Postby MANIACWILL » Jun 2, 2004 (6:00 am)

Actually They are fine and you can play them till hellhounds or creeps/locust or skeletons depending on your skill. They are a good midlevel place for your first guild
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Postby GDEXXY » Jun 2, 2004 (7:13 am)

There haven't been any problems in the past getting to the Pirate's dungeon once you're ready (either by shard, or if someone's been gracious enough to give you a fragment at your young level, one of them). It only requires about 10 ranks to begin to get there with great luck and no chance of fragment breakage. With 20 ranks, you have about a 50% chance of tuning and 50% chance of moderate failure (with still no chance of breakage). So you see, the numbers are fine, I just listed them as a guide so that you know if you're very far away from the difficulty not to try and tune.
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Postby FROG » Jun 2, 2004 (8:13 am)

Code: Select all
Mount Lexunaze          marbled         YES             82


Ok, most of the numbers I get, but why 82? Why not 80 or 85? Just curious.
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Postby MANIACWILL » Jun 2, 2004 (10:19 am)

Actually here is the unbalanced part here is my level 11 mages scores

Appraise: 2 (74%) Blocking Attacks: 7 (99%)
Carving: 1 (97%) Combat Casting: 45 (26%)
Disable Device: 1 (36%) Dodging Attacks: 4 (76%)
Hide: 0 (10%) Light Armor: 18 (86%)
Outnumbered Defense: 6 (95%) Parrying Attacks: 20 (69%)
Punching Dagger: 7 (34%) Quarterstaff: 1 (19%)
Search: 0 (61%) Skinning: 3 (54%)
Use Magic Device: 134 (46%) Wilderness Lore: 1 (77%)

Combat casting of 45 use magical device of 134 that is very broken unless magic device can be used somewhere in magic. Otherwise i can get anywhere and have bad skills when i get there
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Postby JAKEKATT1 » Jun 2, 2004 (11:18 am)

What exatly are you trying to say? That you shouldn't have been able to train a skill that high? You shouldn't have been able to train it that quickly? You want UMD to play a part in hunting? You trained a skill far passed you're other skills and now can't use it to the fullest, that's not a game imbalance, that's a flaw in your training.
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Postby BRUCE » Jun 2, 2004 (11:40 am)

Combat casting of 45 use magical device of 134 that is very broken unless magic device can be used somewhere in magic. Otherwise i can get anywhere and have bad skills when i get there



I have to completely disagree with you here, although it's hard to do without knowing for sure exactly what you think the problem is. You trained alot of UMD, good job....it seems like your saying since you can now Frag to an area your combat skills should automatically raise to that level? Or that you should have a level cap restricting you from being able to train UMD that high? Either way your wrong IMO, to put it bluntly.

-No level caps, this is a skill-based game, you should be able to train that UMD just as high as you want to.
-No your combat skills shouldn't raise automatically to meet your travelskills.

If i train 230948092834 ranks of climbing on the rock face, and Exxy releases a level 300 critter tomorrow that ya need 150 climbing to get to.....well I can climb up to that critter, but damn str8 ima get my rear handed to me on a platter, just as it should be. Again, i'm not sure im clear on what you perceive the problem to be. Travel skills != Combat skills. Nor should they play any factor in combat survivability(I don't think thats a word, but it's cool, and changing it would 'suck').

Hope ya can see things my way, or slap me with a trout if i completely misread what your trying to say. Safe paths.
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Postby MANIACWILL » Jun 2, 2004 (1:09 pm)

glad you posted but here is what i am saying now that i trained a good level of use magical device the skill itself beyond teleportation is useless. I want to see more uses for the use magical device skill released for the new ranks we can aquire in it. Maybe even titles to use from training the skill and/or professions that use it. Say in order to make a magical item you need the skill at a good level plus the skills necessary to turn the raw items into the items being made. Maybe even a way to harvest them all. Say mining in the crystal caverns to aquire ore a place to smelt it into bars a forge where you use weaponsmithing and armorsmithing to craft your items and then the enchantement is based on magical device skill. Also a way for mages and clerics to charge spells into an object based on the factors i listed in this posting so we could say master fire path then charge lava wraith into an object a number of times and your chance for the spell to fail when being charged into the item be based on magical device skills. Obviously if you charged 100 lava wraith spells into an object and had all four branches mastered you would have a very powerful spell. Could sell for quite a bit to others. Same of course for other elements and would make the skill magic device useful further into the game
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Postby GDAREMENTA » Jun 2, 2004 (1:18 pm)

I want to see more uses for the use magical device skill released for the new ranks we can aquire in it.

You should post those thoughts in the wish list thread. :> I think they're quite worth of being there.
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Postby BRUCE » Jun 2, 2004 (1:49 pm)

Ah, see new uses for UMD is a no-brainer and im sure they are on the way. It just sounded like you thought being able to get somewhere meant you should be ready to survive there automatically, which simply is not the case, and shouldn't be.

Good ideas for UMD, i'm sure he has plans for it already but like Arementa said, post your ideas in "Wishlist" they are quite good, and worth having Exxy take a look at.
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MD

Postby THECAT » Jun 3, 2004 (12:42 am)

Is there another way to get md experience or is the frag thing the only way? Just curious. And BTW, thanks for keeping it all so interesting! Keep up the good work!


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