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Protection from thieves

Postby MANIACWILL » May 10, 2004 (4:27 pm)

After A long thought I think that the protection from theives needs to be enforcable up to level 20. At level 20 you change into the guild you want to play for the rest of your life and often have a way to defend yourself if you choose to from a theft also you have a better chance to tell if you are being robbed. I think waiting till level 21 to be robbed protects new players better and since alot of them are level 20 within a week anyway really doesnt hurt the thief much they still have every opportunity to steal if they so choose. This isnt as a punishment for theives but to protect and nurture character growth. I mean as is at level 4 a person can be robbed and likely their highest skill is around level 15 even if they catch the thief there is no way they can defend themselves. Maybe make it an optional command that they can turn off if they want to be able to be picked like helping young travelers or thiefs advance thier skill. I think however that they need to make npc's of varrying degree of diffuculty and lots of other places where thiefs can learn instead so that they dont always have to target players and have plenty of other options to steal from. For one thing make stores able to be robbed from and then have a place where people can sell those goods they steal. Obviously only thefs can take advantage of these places as it promotes guild only skills which i am well for. I mean really a fighter would be more likely to take what he wants by killing the target than by stealing from it and a healer would more want to heal or cure a person and get gifts for thier services than take the money.

This promotes roleplaying a more guild oriented system where you have to play the guilds you stole from. I know for a fact from studing history that if you stole from someone that an assassin would kill you unless you was either paying a percentage to the local thiefs/assassins guild or you belonged to them and already was part of that guild. They have different guilds for a reason and i think people should be forced to play the guild that they choose. If a healer can disable giants boxes they really shouldnt be a healer but a thief if a thief could raise dead he wouldnt be a theif now would he. sorry i guess this is two ideas the next idea is to make a place where thieves cant steal from you but where boxes can be opened. This makes it easier for people to protect themselves but if you only have one place with a bin to put trash in and it is far from the bank it both allows people to feel safe with thier boxes and it still gives chances for a thief to make an attempt on the money

these are mostly to protect new players so they feel safe from theifs which with all the new theifs out there really need the extra help. From what i have seen thiefs are the fastest growing guild and needs to be controlled some but they also need their skills protected from others so that they still have a place in society. Making it impossible for others to learn disable device stealing and certain other skills and sharing skills like hiding and moving silently with rangers and other classes you would expect to have them would well provide a useful skill system where people that shouldnt have the skill doesnt. If a cleric or mage can learn to steal why should a theif not be able to learn to throw magic. they cant and it should work both ways
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Postby trenmarc-eaxia » May 10, 2004 (5:59 pm)

Protected till leve 20? egads thats rediculous I agree protection is good at perhaps first 3 levels but after that no. Other wise the teefs would have way too few targets

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Postby MANIACWILL » May 10, 2004 (6:09 pm)

i dont think you quite get what i am saying so i will simplify for you trenmarc ok.

1. protect players up to level 20
2. make npc's shops and alot of other stuff for theifs to practice on and possible make money on at lower levels so they still learn the skill and still have targets at all skill ranges.
3 make alot more places to loot for skill experience and make it so that looting is based on skill the higher the skill the better you make out.
4. give players after a certain range an option to turn off and on thier protection up to level 20 so they can teach friends to steal.
5. make a place for box opening that thieves cant steal from to protect those that really dont want to be bothered. this wont protect from theives in other areas but will give those that want protection protecton from thieves. if it is too easy to make money everyone will be one.
6. By making npc's and other things for thieves to steal from maybe it will be less of a problem for non-theives by allowing an option to not steal from players but steal from npc's, shops, houses, keeps, forts, castles
7. Would remove some of the boon associated to thieves that now stands for quite a bit of them.

Mani will be a thief and I personally want alot of options that allow me to steal from non-players while still being highly skilled at it. Maybe even put fines or time out in the stocks for being caught stealing to make it more meaningful and make it so that it is a funner system. you get caught you have to lay low for 24 game hours and avoid the guards. if you get caught you can choose to pay a fine or have time in the stocks. I think this would be acceptable by all even the thieves make sure you give input
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Postby ellisj » May 10, 2004 (11:56 pm)

For one if you knew what you were talking about you would know that noone can still from anyone at level 3. you are dead wrong there. another thing is Titus is nowhere near level 40, did not kill you, and did not follow you around. you are protected at least to level 6
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Postby ASTRID » May 11, 2004 (6:35 am)

I could play a level 6 character and never lose a significant amout of money. It's not that hard. Go to the bank. Keep your gems in a closed pouch. If you're worried about getting robbed while you're getting your boxes opened, open them in a safe room and then carry your trash to the bin. And be a considerate, respectful citizen. I've never met a thief yet who didn't have favorite targets, and they usually pick their favorites based on who they feel deserves it, not who's the easy target.

And it doesn't make a bit of sense to be protected from theft until you're able to defend yourself. I can tell you with certainty that in the real world I can't do any real damage to anyone who wants to rob me. Best I can do is keep my eyes open, try to avoid danger, and if that fails, cooperate and hope all they want is my cash. And in real life I'm way past 20th level *chuckle*.
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Postby MANIACWILL » May 11, 2004 (10:21 am)

I for one can do considerable damage if someone stole from me but up untill 20 level *chuckle* My parents protected me from predaters. Not saying I lived with them that long I was out on my own at 17. But the issue is that you really dont have to honely worry about thiefs till then at the earliest. My suggestion which everyone is overlooking is to have considerable alternatives. What it comes down to is a thief will generally be level 15-20 before becoming a thief and our only real recourse is to kill the person that stole from us, or if someone gets lucky and spots them they can kill them for you. Up untill level 20 you stand no chance if you think you do take you level 10 and i will have will show you just how little chance a person that low in level really has. By making alot of alternatives and protecting those that want it everyone would be happy. Personally if someene steals from me I will remember them and when i am big enough ragardless if they do it again I will hunt them down repeatedly and kill them. It is only fair to me to be able to deal with problems when i am capable of it. Giving 24 hours or whatever is rediculous just like in real life if someone stole from me say when i was not at home and i found out about who it was later nothing would save them from me. I think the biggest difference in this game from real world is in game i am a low level youngin with little protection from those that prey on the weak and in real life i am 6'0 300 lbs and people respect me because they dont want hurt. Total role reversal where as people like goharo are 13 or thereabouts and prey on people that in real life they would be totally afraid of
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Postby ellisj » May 11, 2004 (11:31 am)

for one this isn't real life, it's a game.
11.9.2 THEFT
Characters may steal money from each other using the STEAL command. Any money the target or victim is actually carrying on their character is at risk for this kind of theft. Should a character become aware that he or she is being stolen from, the target is immediately granted CONSENT (11.9.7) to engage in combat activities against the thief. Any witnesses to the theft are also granted CONSENT towards the thief (the theft must be noticed by the witness). This form of CONSENT is valid for the 6 hours from which the theft occurred.

for two the policy really sucks now, i can see the person you steal from being allowed to kill you but just a witness? that is stupid. and once again you really should get your facts straight before ya go stirrin up crap with people you don't know and have no clue about, you are the one that doesn't act your age whinin an cryin about gettin stole from.
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Postby GDEXXY » May 11, 2004 (2:52 pm)

Let's not forget the "NO FLAMING" rule here on the forums. You guys don't like each other and have problems with each other? Fine. Leave it off the forums -- the rest of the players don't need to hear it.

The witness part of the policy is there for a number of reasons and makes sense both from a technical and reality standpoint. First of all, we want to protect someone who is 10th level from being robbed blind from 30th level thieves (for example, and with comparitive skills for their level). Secondly, if someone else sees a crime being committed before their very eyes, they may very well lynch you for it. In fact, the same may be applied towards murder if it becomes a problem.

It makes a lot more sense than "go away... now you have to leave me alone" and seems completely fair to me, considering there are alternatives to stealing from player targets.
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Postby MANIACWILL » May 11, 2004 (3:13 pm)

exxy I am sorry if i offended thiefs But my main point behind this posting was also to suggest alternatives to always just stealing from people as i hear it there is only 1 place nonplayer to steal from and if there was alot more choices then there currently is then people will have a choice and thiefs wont necessarely be frowned upon as they are now
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Postby Goharo » May 11, 2004 (9:07 pm)

Here we get a new guy that gets mad about something and wont be quiet about it. Well good for him I say you always stick to your guns. But your wrong 20th level is way to high as it is its like 6th which is just right.
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Postby ASTRID » May 11, 2004 (9:25 pm)

MANIACWILL, 20 levels isn't meant to represent 20 years old. But even if that were the case, kids get robbed all the time, regardless of how their parents try to protect them. Didn't ya ever hear of something getting his lunch money stolen?

But you need to understand that getting revenge after you've been robbed isn't the only way to go about it. You can do a lot of things to keep yourself from being robbed long before it happens.

And if you got robbed in real life, and went back for revenge as you said you would, you would find yourself in a whole heap of trouble.
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Postby MANIACWILL » May 11, 2004 (9:47 pm)

You are still overlooking the main point of that if they make alot of npc and noncharacter related things to steal from it wouldnt be necessary to always steal from a player. Maybe you guys dont read my whole posts though you really should
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Postby ellisj » May 11, 2004 (10:37 pm)

wouldn't be all that fun to steal from a npc all the time, wouldn't get to hear all the complaints
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Postby THECAT » May 12, 2004 (1:31 am)

Part of being a thief is being able to get yourself out of a tight spot. If thieves arent allowed to get themselves into trouble then whats the sense? As said in a previous post its a good thing to hear all the whining. Its part of tghe role play. You dont like being stolen from...as said afore...use tha banks...and close ya pouch... You decide to leave coins in ya poickets and the pouches open...well then I say Its pocket surfing time...and the tides up....wooohooo

I like the chase and welcome the consent. If ya can catch me while I torment ya then good for you...If you dont..well then good for me!!
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Postby SMARK » May 12, 2004 (9:44 am)

Mani, there is more than one way to learn the picpocket skill without stealing from players. Maybe you should get a better grasp of the subject before ya go spouting off. Secondly, no offense here but my character isn't gonna be affraid of a 20th level character. You do realize that there are thievs higher than 30 right? Does this want you to let people slide until the are 30th lvl or maybe 40th? Where does it stop? Or would ya want to make it so thieves can only steal from people their lvl or higher? See how ridiculous this can get? There are protections in place use them to your advantage and suck it up.

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Postby ASTRID » May 12, 2004 (9:45 am)

MANIACWILL, I can't speak for others, but when I reply to one of your posts you can be sure I read your entire post. Sometimes your posts are rather long and cover a number of topics, so I don't always reply to every point you make, but I have read it all.

NPC's take time. There is coding involved, as well as the creative side of writing decriptions, actions, possibly dialog, etc. And there is already a long list of things to do that the GM's are working on. Perhaps it would be a good thing to have more non-players to steal from, but you may need to exercise a little patience when asking for a time consuming change like that. Remember, a number of guilds aren't yet developed, and some aren't even open. These guys are busy, working hard and while I'm sure they read every request, they can't possible act on every one immediately, even if they think it's the perfect idea. I'd also like to see at least one stealable NPC, but until those other guilds get going I'm sure not going to be bugging the GM's to make something new for a guild that already has quite a lot going for it. Besides, thieves who like to get in your pockets aren't going to pass you up for an NPC.

And if you think the idea is to make players safe from theft, you'd wrong. Theft is part of the game. It's meant to be there. Otherwise those skills wouldn't exist, and stealing wouldn't even be a possibility.
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Postby MANIACWILL » May 12, 2004 (10:36 am)

of course i wasnt demanding it now. I would like to see this stuff added over time.
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Postby GDAREMENTA » May 12, 2004 (5:06 pm)

More areas like the one that you mentioned will be added. ;)
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Postby Goharo » May 12, 2004 (5:49 pm)

I dont care how many places I can steal from. I am always gonna steal from palyers first. Just how i roll. Sorry in advance if you are mad about that. Its just no fun to steal from somewhere that doesnt talk.
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Postby GDPALLIDAR » May 12, 2004 (8:48 pm)

Being stolen from can be irritating, but perhaps we should keep a few things in mind.
  • It's realistic, for those who are fond of realism.
  • It's an opportunity for role-play!
  • It's a thieve's right, so long s/he is willing to face any possible repercussions.

It's just part of the game world, and most game worlds at that. It doesn't have to be a purely negative thing for the 'victim'.
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