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Annoyed

Postby Goharo » Sep 3, 2003 (8:23 am)

Seems to me anywhere i go steal is wrong by the players standards. Is there a good place to steal? I do it in town and bam I got some screaming wench crying and then three other people jump right in and start talking like a bunch of morons. I do it while someone is hunting I get told personaly godly type... That thats just wrong a disrespect thing twards the player. Cause they cant say two words STOP STEALING without dying or something. So I can almost understand that one. Where would the best place for me to steal be???????? Not like I can go knock over the pawn shop. If its gonna cause all this trouble me maybe stealing 50 70 gold from your purse, and your gonna cry over it maybe there should be something besides stealing. I dunno though to me then there would be a point in a Thief guild. Cause what does a thief do? Hmmm lets see they steal things sneak around disable boxes, Thats all we got so far. If yous really want stealing to stop ill stop doing it and go be some mindless drone out in the hunting areas. They dont seem to get in any trouble and gain levels really fast. Which brings me to my second point. You know how hard it is to be a thief? ONe shot from a jungatha and Iam done gotta get healed or drink a potion. I watch a barb thats like 30 maybe 40 levels lower than me kill a jungatha, that if it hits me i am in danger and it hit him a few times. Seems to me we are more geared twards fighters and clerics around this part. I can take a fighter and get him 3 to 4 levels a day. Me as a thief I am good to level every 4 days. So we got the mindless ones that just hunt for like 16 hours at a time and then the not so mindless ones that goes and heals them every 10 15 min or so. Not a bad little system if you are a cleric or barb. Yeah works out great cause barbs kill we know this kill and fight. Clerics heal and raise dead people and do a little killing. A thief well me I hunt more than anything even though I think thats way to hard. Then yous all say oh hey you got boxes you get exp from those. Now that everyone can do them I dont get boxes. And the most exp i get from a box is 25 whoa watch out now. Then you got the disable device skill its self. Only thing I seen mine move on is a stone giant box. I am a 61st thief with maxed out main weapon and armor skill and I cant take more than two of these things safely. But thats ok guess cause a thief isnt spose to be able to fight. Please if anyone has anything to add to this feel free.
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Re: Annoyed

Postby ALLRIGHT » Sep 3, 2003 (8:58 am)

As far as the stealing part goes, everyone knows there are thieves, it isnt against policy to steal from someone unless they specifically tell you not to, if you dont want stole from put youre gold in the bank, or stay in a room where ya cant steal, if ya do get stole from...sorry bout youre luck maybe next time itll be in the bank, dont go reporting it to a GM, it isnt against policy so what is there to report exactly in the first place? It may be disrespectful but thieves arent exactly respectable people, everybody knows this. I do have a thief, and a druid, my druid is better at hunting than my thief. Used to be thiefs and barbs were close to even when it came to exp with the boxes, a poison box used to give 150, now it gives 25 with a 1% gain to disable device skill which only gives 35 exp for me each rank. I dont see how that part evens out anymore at all. So basically in my opinion, steal wherever there are people with gold, nobody likes getting stole from but its a part of the game, no need to run cryin about it, it happens to everyone...if it wasnt a part of the game pickpocket wouldnt be a skill. In my opinion thieves are close to the weakest guild in the game, and when you try to RP a thief, somebody is cryin about it. Point of my whole post is, put youre gold in the bank, if its not there its goin in someone elses pocket, part of the game.
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Re: Annoyed

Postby Goharo » Sep 3, 2003 (9:14 am)

well i wasnt talking about the reporting stuff people are free to report whatever thats why thats there my main thing was the stealing and being weak if anyone has any ideas on the two please share
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Re: Annoyed

Postby GMBRAHLIA » Sep 3, 2003 (1:11 pm)

Goharo wrote:well i wasnt talking about the reporting stuff people are free to report whatever thats why thats there my main thing was the stealing and being weak if anyone has any ideas on the two please share


Well as far as the stealing goes, some people are always just going to make a fuss about it, regardless of whether you are doing it within the rules or not. When you meet up with those people, avoid them thereafter like the plague and anyone else that joins in on their fuss making. There are plenty of others that don't feel that way about stealing, and realize it is part of the life in a game such as this. And they actually realize it is part of the fun. Avoid them. Spread the word about them. I doubt very many people would like to interact with such poor sports, and interaction with them would not be all that much fun anyways. (JMHO)

As far as the weak thing.. I don't really understand your drift. But if you mean weak in term of player.. well you can't control others, only yourself. Ultimately they lose by not learning to become better players. Some people just aren't very good at it. I consider myself not very good at, but I try, and I learn all the time about how to be a better player. When you realize someone is a weak player, avoid them unless you see them trying to be better. Some really just want to play in these worlds by themselves. The challenge is in the world, not the interaction with others. Seems sad to only play half of what is available, but some do just like to play by themselves. They should take up console gaming. It would be a better choice.

As long as you are abiding by the rules, why let it make you mad? They are the ones creating a problem for themselves. You know the old adage of "cryin wolf" too many times. Eventually no one wants to listen to them.

You are absolutely correct in that there should be more options for stealing. I am sure it is being worked on. I for one can't wait to steal from shops.
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Re: Annoyed perhaps you meant by weak..

Postby GMBRAHLIA » Sep 3, 2003 (1:22 pm)

That thieves are way to underpowered for their levels and skills in comparision to other classes. Well from what you and others have posted, I would think you are pretty right. I don't know personally though because my thief is too young to be able to notice.

Perhaps that is something that should be looked at. Or perhaps some thief concentration techniques to aid in hunting would help. Somewhat like spells but not magic persay. More like mind over matter.

Perhaps something for the gods to look into?
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Re: Annoyed

Postby DYLNPERRY » Sep 3, 2003 (2:10 pm)

To me being stolen from is something I avoid like mad along with avciding CVC incidents, but you wanna steal feel free, just be ready for payback from your victims and whatever justices roam the land.

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Re: Annoyed

Postby Rob » Sep 3, 2003 (3:19 pm)

I wish I could get a weapon or armor skilled maxed out. I have one skill over 200 ranks. I can't fight stay healthy enough to get some real good gains. But then maybe I just suck at being a fighter. Heck a Rogue can kill me, I have no chance against one my level or a couple levels under(backstab).

As for the stealing things I do agree with you Goharo. Hopefully when they are laws in towns. They will be guards, jails, fines and a system, to handle this. And they needs to be a pouch of something that you can close for you gold. I think you should be able to steal from it still too, but with more of a challange. Also a more complex money system needs to be added to. (Copper,bronze,silver,gold,platinum coins)maybe?

And last note, hopfully the new area will be opening soon and offer more to do.
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Re: Annoyed

Postby Goharo » Sep 3, 2003 (3:43 pm)

Robkin if a rogue can kill you with backstab please report that to the nearest GM cause rogues cant have backstab. Only reason i killed you with backstab is cause well i am 61st and you missed your two attacks after that for some reason. backstab can be used one time an hour at that hardly a good defense its more like a last thing to try when all else fails
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Re: Annoyed

Postby Rob » Sep 3, 2003 (4:43 pm)

Ok Ok I well trained thief, not a rogue. LOL
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Re: Annoyed

Postby SACKETT3 » Sep 3, 2003 (8:48 pm)

Goharo, feel free to steal from me any chance you get, in hunting areas or in town. If I have any money on me that is (lol). You will help me learn the spot and search skills, which in turn makes me a beter player.

I might just keep a few coins in my pocket at all times, just for you. :shock:

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Re: Annoyed

Postby argathian » Sep 4, 2003 (12:31 am)

i will have to agree with ya there randon well said i dont think it could be more plain then that, though it would be nice some times if we could call a godly type IRL :P
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Re: Annoyed

Postby Goharo » Sep 4, 2003 (4:48 am)

Well theres not much to say now Randon really layed down the 411 on that subject.
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Re: Annoyed

Postby Segarion » Sep 5, 2003 (4:56 pm)

I'll side with Randon on this case. When did saying "Don't steal from me please" ever matter to a thief? Stealing is part of the game and it's an RPing aspect of the game. You can't just demand someone to not do it. It's all up the person to stop or not. Cause let's face it, it's his job.

If your not happy with being stolen from, you can take actions towards it. It's all RPing Like I mentioned earlier. The person stealing knows the consequence of stealing and they wouldn't be risking it if they didn't know that fact. In an RPing perspective, you can let it go and run to a bank and deposit all your money. You can report it to the officials of the town(of coure that's a suggestion that would be nice). You can take initiative and go hunting for the thief.

I believe it's within your right to try and get yor gold back from the thief.
I don't know where the GMs stand towards killing somenoe for stealing but I think it's part of RPing. But that's what I think. Personally, if I had the capability, i would hunt the thief down and slice em up some. But I'm usually very mellow AND smart enough to leave the gold in the bank.

So there you have it, take your pick and don't complain and whine about being stolen from. There are smart ways to prevent it but it's up to you to be smart about your money. Cause walking around with gold in your pocket isn't a to ward away the eager fingers of thieves around.
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Re: Annoyed

Postby CLAUDDVON » Sep 8, 2003 (9:02 pm)

I had a thief some many moons ago and this is the very reason he's retired. Too much flack from every angle....just wasn't worth it anymore.

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Re: Annoyed

Postby Rob » Sep 8, 2003 (9:12 pm)

Nothing wrong with stealing, its just that can't do nothing in return even if you catch them. Once Towns have laws and killing to get your gold or gems back in effect. Steal steal away. Heck I'll steal from people too, just for fun. But there always has to been things about people using other character for revenge.
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Re: Annoyed

Postby GMBRAHLIA » Sep 9, 2003 (8:44 am)

Rob wrote:Nothing wrong with stealing, its just that can't do nothing in return even if you catch them.


I don't understand what you mean by you can't do anything. Sure you can. You can learn to be more secure in your practices of handling your coin and gems. If you catch them you can try to get your gold back, by asking, pleading, begging or if not that way then attempt to by force. If you can't get it back, you can spread the word about the dastardly robbery and the person that perpetrated it. You can do all of this in an in character role-playing way.


Rob wrote:Once Towns have laws and killing to get your gold or gems back in effect. Steal steal away. Heck I'll steal from people too, just for fun. But there always has to been things about people using other character for revenge.


I don't see what difference a Justice System will make in the scenario you are describing. One not only has rp non-violent resolutions available to utilize, but also according to 11.9.2 THEFT, 11.9.7 CONSENT, and 11.9.8 WITNESS of the EOPAP clearly state what the rp violent resolutions that are available. One does not have to resort to non-rp action to resolve these types of issues. Why would you when there are so many other available options that are much more fun and inclusive of players rather than exclusive to players and contrary to good game play?

Just an opinion.
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Re: Annoyed

Postby Rob » Sep 9, 2003 (3:50 pm)

Like I said you can't do anything about it at this time. The Gm don't allow nothing.

And 2 who said anything about me switching characters I play this one. Was talking about others that do.
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Re: Annoyed

Postby GMBRAHLIA » Sep 9, 2003 (6:24 pm)

Rob wrote:Like I said you can't do anything about it at this time. The Gm don't allow nothing.


What do you mean you can't do anything about it at this time? Surely the rules of the EOPAP are true are they not? You can kill the thief that steals your coin. You do have in character, violent role play options in regards to avenge stealing upon your person. I don't understand what you are speaking about in terms of not being able to do anything about it at this time... am I interpreting the EOPAP incorrectly?


Rob wrote:And 2 who said anything about me switching characters I play this one. Was talking about others that do.


I didn't see anything about switching characters in any post other than yours (I think now that is what you meant by using a character for revenge?.. I didn't take as that when I read it, but if that is what you meant then you are the only one to mention switching characters, no one else. ) I only quoted you. I surely didn't mention it in response. What are you referring to?
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Re: Annoyed

Postby Rob » Sep 9, 2003 (6:33 pm)

No you can't kill a thief that steals from you!
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Re: Annoyed

Postby GMBRAHLIA » Sep 9, 2003 (8:14 pm)

Rob wrote:No you can't kill a thief that steals from you!


Perhaps you need to read the EOPAP again.

We are speaking of someone stealing after being asked to stop. If they continue to do so according to the EOPAP 11.9.2 THEFT and 11.9.7 it specfically states that then gives the victim CONSENT. Having CONSENT means an action caused by a character that enables another character to respond with aggressive actions that can include character death without violating policy.

How does that mean you cannot kill the thief that steals from you?

You can ask them to stop. If they don't you have consent. Consent means you can engage them and fight them, potentially causing their death. Hopefully through good role play you can get your money back before they die. If not.. well then they die. Or you die. End of conflict. Good time had by all hopefully through good in character role play.

What part means you cannot kill a thief that steals from you?
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Re: Annoyed

Postby Rob » Sep 10, 2003 (4:13 pm)

Cause you can't , you will get lock out of game for killing them! Have to have they consent to kill them.
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Re: Annoyed

Postby CARIMEI » Sep 10, 2003 (6:31 pm)

Rob please read the previous post a little more carefully.. If you ask them to stop stealing from you and you catch them again then by the player agreement they are giving you consent to kill them. Not that I'd have a prayer of doing such with most of those who I see or don't see Stealing..

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Re: Annoyed

Postby Rob » Sep 10, 2003 (7:05 pm)

No you can't kill them. You will get lock out. I know for a fact and so do others. He thinks he is a know it all.
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Re: Annoyed

Postby ALLRIGHT » Sep 10, 2003 (7:22 pm)

Okay for one, this is getting ridiculous, calling people a "know it all" is a tad childish, however if you read the policy it says, if you tell someone to stop doing something and they continue, i.e. stealing, if they continue, that gives you consent to kill them, report them, you can do either one of those, or laugh it off. Read the policy it says it right there, Marpo has cited it several times, she isnt making that up. Maybe you should ask Exxy if that would make it any clearer. If someone steals, and is told to stop, and steals again, you can kill them, or report them. Not that difficult to understand.
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Re: Annoyed

Postby Rob » Sep 10, 2003 (7:32 pm)

yes you can report then but you can't kill them and that is from EXXY.
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Re: Annoyed

Postby ALLRIGHT » Sep 10, 2003 (7:46 pm)

Should the aggressor continue after a clear request from the target to stop, the victim / targeted character is then given CONSENT (11.9.7) to engage in combat activities against their aggressor.

VICTIM=YOU
AGGRESSOR=THIEF
COMBAT ACTIVITIES=ENGAGING THEM IN COMBAT AND KILLING THEM
CONSENT=WHAT YOU HAVE TO HAVE TO KILL SOMEBODY

It all seems pretty clear to me.
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Re: Annoyed

Postby GDEXXY » Sep 11, 2003 (12:08 pm)

Segarion wrote:When did saying "Don't steal from me please" ever matter to a thief? Stealing is part of the game and it's an RPing aspect of the game. You can't just demand someone to not do it. It's all up the person to stop or not.


It matters to us, the game staff, whether someone has been asked to stop a player-versus-player activity or not. When our justice system is fully-operational and we have extreme defensive penalties in place for thieves in the process of stealing, perhaps we can lift this protection in favor of more in-character ones. For now, this is it.


Segarion wrote:Cause let's face it, it's his job.


No, it's not. Thieves play a hundred roles, traditionally and within Eaxia as well, and while they do excel at stealing, it is far from the defining characteristic of what makes a thief a thief, as far as role-playing games are concerned.


Segarion wrote:If your not happy with being stolen from, you can take actions towards it. It's all RPing Like I mentioned earlier. The person stealing knows the consequence of stealing and they wouldn't be risking it if they didn't know that fact.


Most of the people stealing are doing so in a way that they become (a) impossible to kill (choosing smaller targets) or (b) wind up in a safe location (so can't be attacked) and it's not fair to ask Thieves to only steal from people who could beat the crap out of them, so I disagree with that outright.


Segarion wrote:In an RPing perspective, you can let it go and run to a bank and deposit all your money.


Sure, sometimes.


Segarion wrote:You can report it to the officials of the town(of coure that's a suggestion that would be nice).


Not right now, it's not possible.


Segarion wrote:You can take initiative and go hunting for the thief.


Good luck, most of them could kick *my* a**.


Segarion wrote:I believe it's within your right to try and get yor gold back from the thief.
I don't know where the GMs stand towards killing somenoe for stealing but I think it's part of RPing.


It's in our policy (11.9.2) that stealing does not immediately award CONSENT. Currently, if the stealer is asked to stop and does not, CONSENT is awarded to the victim and it is the victim's decision whether to act aggressively towards the stealer under the rules of CONSENT, ignore it, or to report it to us, the staff.


Segarion wrote:So there you have it, take your pick and don't complain and whine about being stolen from.


There's very little protection against it and there's very little they can do after the fact. If you have a problem with victims complaining that they can't protect themselves, we could just disable stealing altogether to stop the problem at it's root.


Segarion wrote:There are smart ways to prevent it but it's up to you to be smart about your money. Cause walking around with gold in your pocket isn't a to ward away the eager fingers of thieves around.


It seems a wise idea to deposit money regularly, but when you're being stolen from while hunting, that's hardly an option, as with the last report that spurred this entire thread.
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Re: Annoyed

Postby GDEXXY » Sep 11, 2003 (12:09 pm)

Rob wrote:Nothing wrong with stealing, its just that can't do nothing in return even if you catch them. Once Towns have laws and killing to get your gold or gems back in effect. Steal steal away.


Exactly the point: there's no protection other than policy at the moment.
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Re: Annoyed

Postby GDEXXY » Sep 11, 2003 (12:14 pm)

MARPO wrote:...but also according to 11.9.2 THEFT, 11.9.7 CONSENT, and 11.9.8 WITNESS of the EOPAP clearly state what the rp violent resolutions that are available. One does not have to resort to non-rp action to resolve these types of issues.


Does not have to, but has the full option to be able to -- which is completely fair because at this point, the stealer has violated our Eaxia Online Player Agreement Policy (EO:PAP) and it's up to the victim whether to defend him or herself in game (if possible and desired) or to ignore the infraction or to report the violation to the game staff. It's their decision, not the stealer's, whether or not the violation should be reported.


MARPO wrote:Why would you when there are so many other available options that are much more fun and inclusive of players rather than exclusive to players and contrary to good game play?


We're talking about violations of policy. Right now it is policy that if they are asked to stop, they must for a certain period. If they do not, it's a violation that is reportable (which has been). That's why.
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